-eBay Customizers-

-eBay Customizers-
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Custom WorkstationHey guyz,
If you havent heard yet, there's a lot of customs on ebay thats being pulled. Which is a really bad sign for us that sells customs on eBay -_- anyone got any news please let us know and post it here. Now im afraid to put up my custom -_-..
~Gj

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User Comments
X Men on eBay
Sometimes people are just jerks. They'll seize any opportunity to make a buck off your efforts, and because people are the way they are, Large companies have to flex thier copyright muscles a lot to protect thier property. Imagine a business that made bootleg Marvel t-shirts, sold them for half what marvel has to sell them for to cover their overhead, and there was no law in place to protect Marvel from them. Additionally there has to be a line drawn somewhere or things will get out of hand very quickly. I remember when MP3s were new and the Music industry turned a blind eye at first because they didn't think they would catch on, or last. Combine MP3s with the internet and within hours Millions of dollars in revenue were being lost by the music industry. Now, I have no love for the record labels but many artist who had lousy deals ONLY giving them royalties on sold albums really lost out. It was a mess and some of you are old enough to remember the Napster stuff.
Truth is, when I make a Korg from another figure, I am still making an image that belongs to Marvel Comics Inc. I have justified it based on a few things: 1) I had heard that Marvel viewed the customizing scene as good for business. 2) I doubt Marvel or Hasbro plan to make any of the mods I've done and plan to do. 3) I'm not mass producing them and rarely make a profit on them. Heck my last Black Panther (robotic arm & leg) didn't even sell at all. 4) I bought the figure and can do with it as I please. If I want to have Gene Simmons pee on it and then I sell it on eBay it's my right, I purchased the figure, and a Marvel Legends figure doesn't come with a single use license like software does. If I make a profit on it after it has pee on it, then it's Marvel's loss for not thinking of that, they cannot legally keep me from selling it for more than I paid for it. 5) I'm a private citizen with a hobby, not a business.
Next comes the simple fact that if Marvel was going after Modders, they'd come after sites like this too, and they'd come after my auctions because at the very least my feedback rating makes me look like I've sold tons of the things. They haven't even sneered at me yet unless they are somehow magically keeping people from bidding on my items, which would be quite a trick!!
-New guy sees a figure he's made too, but won't be able to sell for nearly as much because he's unknown and his doesn't look as good. So he removes his competition.
-Bidder is losing the auction by a lot and figures if he can't have it, nobody can.
-Random person has something against the customizer.
-Loser at Marvel feels like he should flex his copyright muscles and randomly complain about customizers.
people are ass holes sometimes.
-New guy sees a figure he's made too, but won't be able to sell for nearly as much because he's unknown and his doesn't look as good. So he removes his competition.
-Bidder is losing the auction by a lot and figures if he can't have it, nobody can.
-Random person has something against the customizer.
-Loser at Marvel feels like he should flex his copyright muscles and randomly complain about customizers.
That's a problem with Ebay - all someone has to do is complain about an auction and Ebay will zap it immediately without even contacting the auctioneer beforehand. I had that done to me when I was selling a guitar amp all because a guy that built custom guitar speaker cabinets used the same name for his cabinets as the guy that built the guitar amp I was selling used - Thunder Tweak. Their little girly-slap party had nothing to do with me, I was just selling a used, and very cool I might add, guitar amp. But Ebay blasted my auction into oblivion anyway.
Thanks now you have we wishing and wanting
And you said 3 big dudes in a suit came visiting?
This like a Federal Agent version of the 3 headed knight from Monty Python and The Holy Grail?
Did they say "nee" in between sentences?
So I got tired of fighting, sold my patterns and molds to someone with more energy and moved on to making Aliens Figures...hahaha, I would do drool coming out of the mouth, thoe whole nine yards. Even made a face hugger that was bendy so you could put it on your face and wear it around. That was very popular! But, alas they came after us too. SO I stopped doing that and made stuff for the Goths (My daughter is a HUGE goth fan). So I got some cool plastic that turns to powder in sunlight, and started casting vampire teeth I sculpted to look like they were ripped out with pliers (Got the idea from Blade) and sold those for a while in little tombstone shaped plastic boxes I sculpted and cast in plastic. Then I saw everyone with those dadblamed zen gardens all over thier cubicles, and I got so fed up with those, I bought 100lbs of Black casting sand, and sculpted and cast some little tombstones, made some tiny roses and got some plastic skeletons, and created a Cemetary zen garden (the Zenmatery). I sold them with a little pick and shovel I sculpted and cast in cold cast bronze. (Still ahve the molds for that stuff!). I also took some Ferrofluid (a magnetic liquid) and cast reverse polarity rare earth magnets into plastic crosses. died the Ferro fluid blood red and if you poured into a pitri dish, and held the cross near it, the "blood" would move away from the cross as if it was repelled by the holy icon. LOL! The vamps LOVED that stuff until I was ordering so much ferro fluid the FDA came to my door wanting to know what I was doing - lmao!
So, then I had Chopperkeys, which I created, copyrighted, trademarked and patented. Got sick of keys and sold the biz. Now I mod figs for a hobby and I'm more passionate about having that yanked from me than anything I've done in the past. You know guys (and gals!) It was the COMICS that taught us all to root for the underdog!! Have they stopped to think about who they are messing with?!
This is why I want to be in business with this guy - not only a technically groovy sculptor but a mold maker and ideas factory to boot
The Ferrofluid blood trick could also be used for making a custom prop from John Carpenters THE THING
I could see that really selling well at the horror conventions I sell my Zombies at
I can vouch for his chopper keys being absolutely sweet! and I wish I had one for the my custom Chopper - (when I had it)
And I so love the Gravestone idea did you take any pics? man you and I HAVE to do that again and make a Vamp figure to sell with it
And I've just totally redesigned a vampire too - I see our first collaboration forming
~Gj
~Gj
The FDA agents were more than amused when I showed them what I was actually doing with it, although they warned me about Red dye #3 (I explained I was using a chemically neutral red pigment for plastic and they were satisfied), and I sent them away with thier own kit. They were in my kitchen all of about 30 minutes, mostly playing with the magnets and ferro fluid. You can get it at most chemical supply or science outlets, and it's just a blast to play with - just don't forget to work on your figures too!
Off-tangent:
The only time I've had actual government agents come to my door was when one of my neighbors caught me sniping the gangsters on the streets (with plastic BBs at relatively low velocity so there's no mess, hard enough to hurt like hell though!) that like to write all over the walls and reported me (to someone, I thought the cops, didn't think the feds would be brought in since neighbor knew they were plastic BBs). So obviously I hid the rifle at a friend's house for a while. Two days later three big dudes in a suit come knocking on my door to ask some questions. I guess they thought I was a terrorist?
So in the end, all they had to go on was one report from a wierd neighbor (dude really was wierd, not "credible I guess"
But I digress...any excuse to tell that story xD
So I got tired of fighting, sold my patterns and molds to someone with more energy and moved on to making Aliens Figures...hahaha, I would do drool coming out of the mouth, thoe whole nine yards. Even made a face hugger that was bendy so you could put it on your face and wear it around. That was very popular! But, alas they came after us too. SO I stopped doing that and made stuff for the Goths (My daughter is a HUGE goth fan). So I got some cool plastic that turns to powder in sunlight, and started casting vampire teeth I sculpted to look like they were ripped out with pliers (Got the idea from Blade) and sold those for a while in little tombstone shaped plastic boxes I sculpted and cast in plastic. Then I saw everyone with those dadblamed zen gardens all over thier cubicles, and I got so fed up with those, I bought 100lbs of Black casting sand, and sculpted and cast some little tombstones, made some tiny roses and got some plastic skeletons, and created a Cemetary zen garden (the Zenmatery). I sold them with a little pick and shovel I sculpted and cast in cold cast bronze. (Still ahve the molds for that stuff!). I also took some Ferrofluid (a magnetic liquid) and cast reverse polarity rare earth magnets into plastic crosses. died the Ferro fluid blood red and if you poured into a pitri dish, and held the cross near it, the "blood" would move away from the cross as if it was repelled by the holy icon. LOL! The vamps LOVED that stuff until I was ordering so much ferro fluid the FDA came to my door wanting to know what I was doing - lmao!
So, then I had Chopperkeys, which I created, copyrighted, trademarked and patented. Got sick of keys and sold the biz. Now I mod figs for a hobby and I'm more passionate about having that yanked from me than anything I've done in the past. You know guys (and gals!) It was the COMICS that taught us all to root for the underdog!! Have they stopped to think about who they are messing with?!
Dedi: My friend, count on me for anything I can do to help sir! and thank you most kindly for the kind words!!
I am new to putting anything of mine up on Ebay - I've only ever sold stuff to people I've targeted thru Flyers left on counters at local comic shops/Alternative shops/Games shops and sold my stuff directly to them and have built up a good base of 50 regular customers to whom can afford £25 - £50 (approximately $50 -$100) customs
I've still to sell them on Ebay - as I was distrustful of this whole Ebay thing
Its kinda like a Conan the Barbarian Vs Magic thing, Lol
But this recent development has made me even more reticent to do so
Tho I really am not surprised at this happening
I'm old enough to remember the GARAGE KIT Boom of the late 80s/Early 90s where sales from homegrown talent making anything fans heart desires were crushed by Film Studios and DC Comics especially which even closed down certain Fansites and fanzine magazines like Gotham Gateway
They mobilised their Lawyers on some Batman, Aliens and Terminator figure Customisers - who were producing HIGH QUALITY WORK compared to the CORPORATE TAT
Precedent set others followed suit on several other license/copyright infringements
Now under copyright law - you CAN make a certain number of an item thats a copyright of a Huge company - AS LONG AS that net profit of total sale revenue won't hurt their official sales
As my Good friend Greymonk says what we are doing IS good for their business as we buy up Fodder in their figures and also are hooked on their comics - putting megabucks in their wallets
So really the balance is maintained
Tho this does sound kinda official - I still am of the opinion that this is a rival customiser, possibly even someone that works at Marvel as an intern and has used his companys resources to research specific intellectual property and copyright infringement - but not totally
The very fact that there hasnt been a blanket ban of all Marvel/DC/Other customs on Ebay and only certain types of figures - justifies this theory
Someone is specifically eradicating competition here and have targeted specific individuals who pose a threat to them
And Greymonk - tho you arent a customising heavy hitter like Jin, Kyle, Geejay, TMB,VP etc
Your original sculpture work is awesome my friend
I love your work and would go into business with you making original stuff at the drop of a hat - such is my faith in your work
I hope if this Dalhoff guy does get found out to be a rival customiser - that he gets a karmic dose and then some
Best of luck to every customizer out there, on Ebay, and I'll report any information I receive about this situation.
If it is illegal to sell customs because of the trademark infringement then why is there a listing format on Ebay in the first place?
Does anybody know how many customs got cancelled this week?
The only reason I ask this is because there are still a 107 custom marvel legends on ebay this afternoon, so it could not of been a Marvel Co. purge.
Does anybody know of any customizer that was recently booted off Ebay?
Again I only ask this; as this happened back in 2000-2001 on Ebay. It was later found out to be a customizer in Figi that was kicked off ebay and decided to screw with the rest of us that were selling back then when there were only 25-30 customs listed per week, (Not Custom Marvel legends, this was Custom DC). A lot of us back then were suspended for 30-90 days from listing but it all worked out in the end and so will this.
~Gj
Yes I had to sculpt the head for my most recent black panther, but it looks nothing like his comic face, (hey I was watching Lethal Weapon 3 at the time I can't help that it looks like Danny Glover!!
Hasbro makes it's money from me buying thier figs, Marvel makes it's money from me cause I buy thier comics for reference material and get hooked on the story lines. We are depriving them of nothing in the way of intellectual rights except in licensing. Traditionally one would have to be licensed to make an image of a comic character and the licensing is super expensive, usually a per figure price and the more popular (Spiderman fantastic 4 etc.) the more the $$$ costs for the license. It is likely a lack of royalties or license fees that has spawned this recent attack, and that's where the companies lose out because Jin probably doesn't have a license to make a Black Bolt figure. It's not cost effective for Jin to buy a license to make one $200 figure. Copyright and Royalty laws state that the IP holder has a right to ANY and ALL potential profit gains available from the use of thier Intellectual Property. Little bean counters and Lawyers will try to calculate the lost revenue from a figure sale (even a one off!) and they will actually BILL the infringer for the estimated loss of revenue starting with the licensing fee which is probably in the tens of thousands of dollars. Naturally Jin hasn't those kind of resources, so they will threaten lawsuits to obtain that money if the person continues depriving the IP holder of the anticipated revenue. It's all about greed, plain and simple the sad part (when it's not on our side) is that it's completely thier right to do this. Always has been.
Now to add insult to injury, a copyright is only good for 75 years AFTER the death of the holder. However, a corporation is considered by the US Federal government to be an Immortal Person therefore, the corporation ONLY dies when it is dissolved. I don't see Marvel Inc. "dying" anytime soon, so the property will NEVER be public domain. 300 years from now, Spiderman will still be trademarked and whoever tries to put on a spiderman play, will be paying through the nose for the rights to produce it unlike putting on a Shakespearean play in this day and age. When you hear someone saying that corporations rule the world or have ruined it for everyone, you might think now less like that person is a conspiracy theorist.
Heres another question if I sell a Planet hulk figure perhaps, add a few weapons to it does that make it an illegal item? If they can take this off not only is hurt eBay but it also makes it possible for them to start ending all MArvel related auctions on eBay. Is Marvel that jealous of people making extra money off of their items that they would start doing this. If it doen't end at that who's to say they won't start to end vintage comics and figures the possibilities are endless at this point.
I do know this however, I work for an NFL team and (not hard to figure out if you check my area) they tried to get their items pulled off of online auction and websites and various stores due to the sheer fact of greed. They lost the battle and were given this statement by the NFL:
"Any items purchased by an individual or company become property of such here in. As such the wefare of these items is that of the owner and can be used as the owner ses fit"
After that we had another instance where people were buying our teams patches and putting them on coats and other items again they tried to stop them and we got the same response plus this:
"Any item purchased from our teams can be used to enhance another item."
This allowed individuals to buy patches, photos etc make them into plaques or what not and resale them.
I'm thining we are getting into the same situation here and I hope for the most part the results are the same.
I remember when Paramount began cracking down on Star Trek fans, getting fan sites closed and zapping the prop makers (I was one of them!) and then the fans got fed up and low and behold, Star Trek died. (Seen any Star Trek movies recently?) So, if this is truly Marvel deciding that custom mods being sold on eBay is not ok, it is well within thier right to do so, but in my unsolicited opinion is bad for business and I expect they will feel it in the shockwave that ensues from boycots, protested movies and the like. Marvel and DC have always had more sense than Paramount Pictures so I suspect this will all work out ok in the end. Especially with the big dawgs like Jin and K & L fighting the battle for us, but what a roller coaster ride this is! I can't wait for the next issue!
oh well my auctions are still up but probably because there are no bids on them. Or it's just a matter of time before I get yanked or who knows? Sure sounds like someone was specifically targeting those few auctions though. However, VeRO is a real deal I've used it Before to protect my copyrights.
This will be interesting to see unfold!
So anybody got ant ideas?
K&L customs, Eagle, and some others had their auctions pulled but that's it. There's still 118 'custom marvel legends' auctions still up on Ebay and nothing else was yanked off after them. I called up Jesse Falcon this morning after hearing the news and asked if he knew anything about it. He said he didn't know mailto:dalthoff@marvel.com so it wasn't someone from the east coast offices, possibly here on the west coast maybe. As far as Jesse has heard nothing about Marvel or Hasbro's stance on custom made figures has changed. Jesse did mention Marvel is aware that fan-made figures help with character/product intrest so they're not a bad thing. He suggested to contact dalthoff himself. So I whipped up another email account, as not to draw suspicion to my regular one, and emailed both him and the protectmarvel asking them if A: anything had changed legally about making custom figures, and B: why those auctions in particular were pulled. I'm waiting for a reply from either sources and will have answers for you all when I get them. So far neither has replied to my emails so I'm just waiting. I'll call ToyFare tomorrow and ask their opinion, since they contract out people to make them custom marvel legends and would have knowledge about the legal implications of paying actual money for custom figures.
You know I won't let customizing disappear without some sort of fight, heh. Don't jump to conclusions just yet tho.
~Gj
eBay, doesn't view that at all. They are purely concerned about lawsuits and ensuing settlements since they have such deep pockets and a lot of people hate them, they are a prime target for lawsuits. So they have a kneejerk reaction to it in the form of yanking an auction without an appeals process. This is a valuable weapon for dishonest people that want to eliminate competition on eBay. I have been through this more times than I care to admit, and the next few weeks on eBay will be rather ugly. Paranoia will ensue, people will start complaining about anyone modding and getting auctions yanked all over the place. This will go one until the following two things happen:
1) Modding has slowed down considerably and
2) the eBay police discover that the person that initiated the complaints is also selling modded figures. Once they realize that (and they have to realize that on thier own!) they will stop yanking auctions.
eBay will never tell you who complained against your auction. They also will not go back and check the categories to see if you go back and put the auction back up. They will wait for another complaint to be issued against you. Once you, in retaliation complain against the one who started it (and I can promise you it's another modder or a figure seller!) they will then compare the original complaints to the list of people that had auctions yanked. When they realize that this tactic was used to eliminate competition, they will cease the process and ban the originator for 90 days. But it will be a long and extremely frustrating process. You'll have auctions yanked, lose customers because they get scared off, and some of us will get banned a couple of times all in the process. This will suk like you wouldn't believe but we will emerge victorious, just don't give up.
Chances are, the auctions that got pulled had bids on them and were likely at a high bid price. start writing down the high bidders on your auctions and keep it handy. There are ways to make contact with those people and let them know what happened. IF modding figs was a copyright violation, Marvel would be all over us and toyfare wouldn't do articles about customizers. however, eBay doesn't care, they are so afraid of lawsuits that they won't even hear your case, they just yank it and this whole thing is a major tactic for some pogue that wants to play dirty. When Iw as making my keys I had auctions get pulled that I OWNED the copyright on and held patents for, eBay wouldn't give me a chance to plead my case until I reached powerseller status. Sorry this is going on friends, I hate to see something like this happen. It really gets my dander up!
eBay doesn't police itself. It relies upon other eBayers to police it for them, you know...rat people out. Now, traditionally people will turn in a competitor's auction because it has a rule violation in it, like a web site mention, or url, or shill bids (having buddies bid on your auction to run up the price)etc. when someone reports an auction for a copyright violation, eBay doesn't investigate at all, they don't want to take a chance that someone has truly violated a copyright and therefore, they yank the auction. SOMEONE is trying to eliminate you/us as the competition and is getting eBay to yank our auctions. That in plain English is exactly what's going on. I sure hope it's not someone on FR!